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Posted: 03 December 2019 06:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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We had a vigorous debate on this awhile back.

Yes, and I have learned that there are people it is not worth interacting with.  Olivier was born with the pronunciation I cite, and (like the others) gave up and accepted the popular version, which is why he said it himself in later years.  Paul Motian did the same.

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Posted: 03 December 2019 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Labuschagne is a name with a French origin that is now moderately common in South Africa. The normal pronunciation in South Africa is /lʌbəˈskʌxni/. This, for instance, is how Rugby player Lappies Labuschagne and Western Cape politician Cathlene Labuschagne pronounce it.

South African-born Australian cricketer Marnus Labuschagne has adopted a relaxed and pragmatic attitude to the pronunciation of his name. /lʌbəˈskʌxni/ is admittedly a little tricky for some English-speaking folk to pronounce, with that /x/ (like the ch in a Scottish loch) immediately followed by the /n/. He’s content to answer to /læbəˈʃeɪn/ as well.

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Posted: 03 December 2019 01:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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languagehat - 03 December 2019 06:41 AM

We had a vigorous debate on this awhile back.

Yes, and I have learned that there are people it is not worth interacting with.

Again, I appreciate your predictable subtle ad hominem. Because I refute your assertion on this particular, (there are a few) issue you self-righteously proclaim I’m not worth interacting with.  It’s interesting, however, that your comment on this topic in 2016 counters what you just stated:

“You have no way of knowing that, obviously, and neither of us can prove our point, so I suggest we let it go.  I trust you are not insinuating that I am lying about what I heard, and since I heard it from what I took to be a reliable source, I believe it.  You are certainly not obliged to believe it on my say-so.  It is, of course, obvious that the standard pronunciation is the standard pronunciation and that Olivier himself accepted it as such; the question is solely whether that was his original pronunciation.  Again, neither of us can prove anything one way or the other.

Olivier was born with the pronunciation I cite, and (like the others) gave up and accepted the popular version, which is why he said it himself in later years. 

Do you have substantiation for your claim? If you do I stand corrected and accept your position as accurate.
I’ll reiterate the facts, which you seem to ignore: The Oliviers were French Huegunots who had settled in Britain early in the eighteenth century. That would seem to corroborate the French pronunciation, but you claim that the pronunciation was anglicized from his birth. Why?

In our past debate I also submitted more information that supported my claim, which you conveniently ignored:

Nine-year-old Bonita Granville, then making her movie debut as Olivier’s daughter, had an unusual reason for recalling the event: “I remember that everyone on the set said he took quite a shine to me because I was the only one who pronounced his name correctly. I pronounce it ‘O-live-ee-ay’ because I came from a theatrical family and had been taught to learn everyone’s name properly. But everyone else called him ‘Mr. Oliver’!”

Olivier by Terry Coleman
Based on exclusive, unprecedented access, the definitive biography of Sir Laurence Olivier

.

Perhaps mumpsimus is my interlocutor; therefore, I desist.

*Bold emphasis added

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Posted: 03 December 2019 02:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Oecolampadius - 02 December 2019 05:56 PM

And then the infamous Anthony Weiner (WEE-ner). He liked his family’s pronunciation saying, “Only I get to make the wiener jokes.”

It’s too bad what he did to himself, because he did have some good lines.  At one of those bipartisan roasts they used to have back in the old days, he invited John Boehner to drop the “Baner” pretext and embrace the obvious pronunciation (trust me, his delivery was pretty good).

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Posted: 04 December 2019 08:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Thought of another example:

Ralph Macchio, the Marvel writer and editor, pronounces his name in the Italian way, mack-io.

Ralph Macchio, the actor from Karate kid, pronounces his name match-io.

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Posted: 05 December 2019 04:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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In Anthony Weiner’s pronunciation case, it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t. He had the choice between / WEE-nur / and all the dick jokes and / WHINE-ur / and derision for being nothing but a useless complainer. At least with the dick jokes he could own the humor, which he did (and then some).

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